November 8, 2023 at 4:00 PM - Policy Committee Meeting

Discussion:  Hamby asked for a motion to approve minutes. Nichols moved to approve and Stull with the second. Hamby then told everyone that the nomination of policy chair was left off of the agenda. She asked them to do that prior to moving into other business. Nichols and Stull nominated Hamby for Chair. When Hamby asked Davis what his vote was, he asked if they were able to do that. Hamby asked to do what. Davis said to vote on something. Hamby said yes, they vote in the policy meeting. They vote on the changes they want and then vote to send them to the full board. Davis asked Hamby to show him where it says that. Hamby said she didn't have the policy in front of her and asked Boston if she could help. Boston asked Davis if he could show here where that wasn't in policy. Davis said sure. He proceeded to read from policy 1.300 Board Committees. Boston asked him what it said. Davis said it doesn't say they had to vote. Boston said it doesn't say they don't have to either. She asked if items weren't voted on, how would they know what to recommend to the full board. Davis said in number 3 of the policy it says "Issues to be discussed by the committee must be approved in advance by the entire Board". He said the board would have given the committee the issues to discuss during the committee meeting. Boston replied which is policy. Davis said right, but it doesn't say they have to have a chair for a committee. Sadfie said if Davis looked through Robert's Rules of Order he would see that all committees have to have a chairperson. He said he didn't do the research on it but generally that's what RRO recommend and organize that. Hamby, reading from RRO said "Rules for small boards and committees under Robert's Rules of Order-not necessary to rise or make a motion or to seek recognition, no limit on number of times a person may speak, presiding officer doesn't have to leave the chair when making a motion or participating in debate, motions to close or limit debate not allowed, members can discuss the subject while no motion is pending unamious consent, may be used in lew of a formal vote, motions are not required to be seconded, but a second is recommended". Davis asked if that said they have to have a chairperson for each committee. Hamby said that pertains to the voting. Stull said it mentions an officer, so the chairperson would be the officer. Davis asked, so our policy doesn't say that we have to have a chairperson. Hamby said they are supposed to have an officer of the committee. She went on to say that she isn't understanding why there's an issue, why everything that comes up has to turn into a debate and an issue. Davis said he could clarify that. Hamby said they could not discuss anything on the agenda until a chairman was elected. Davis asked why that wasn't on the agenda. Hamby said because it was a miscommunication between her and Ms. Diane. McCartney spoke up and said she would take full responsibility for that because by the time she received everyone's decisions on what policies they wanted on the agenda and what policies they did not want and all the changes that were made in order to get the agenda published, the district does this once a year, at each committee meeting, after the voting in September, and she missed it. She said instead of her putting out yet another email with changes to an already published agenda, Hamby knew it needed to be on there and once again said she took full responsibility in all the chaos of this policy meeting.  Davis said he was just trying to get his head around it and asked if Stepp had gotten the opportunity to review the agenda items, including the one that's not on there. Hamby said she spoke with Stepp today and they did not discuss about the policy chair because that's a given every year, but they discussed other things regarding the policy meeting. Davis asked, so then he's had input on these policy items? Hamby said anything he wanted to give input on, yes he did, but he chose not to give any input or feedback on any of them and just said let him know how the meeting went. Stull asked if it was the fact that Stepp was not present that Davis wasn't willing to have the meeting. Davis said that was part of it. Stull said they had other meetings that he had not been in attendance at. Safdie said one of the things that Davis has been talking about for the past year is accuracy in policy. Safdie said what he's done at this point is he's pointed out, what his primary theme has been for the last year, that there are things in policy that are either omitted or that the board has done in the past but are not in policy. He said he would like to see Davis at the next policy meeting take this policy and any others and bring it before the chairman so that they can make corrections and additions to it. That's the only way it can take place. Stull said this policy (1.300) is actually on today's agenda. Safdie said he likes Davis' perception-we've done things by tradition and they may not be in policy, but the election of officers has always taken place on the first day of the committee meeting. He said Davis was on 2 committees, where that was the first step. Safdie said he sees Davis pointing out and setting precedence that they need to look at policy and make some changes on them. Safdie said that would be a great one to include at the next policy meeting along with others that he could recommend to the chairperson. Davis said that was the intent, to do what they say and say what they do. One of the board's functions is to promote, but it's hard to promote something that lends itself to being vague on how to operate. Like if they promote someone to join the school board, they either promote that they will follow their own rules or promote that they'll be in constant chaos. Safdie said to keep that in the forefront of his mind and the at the next meeting, discuss and Boston told Safdie that policy is on today's agenda. Safdie said ok, you have your chance to put in recommended changes to clarify it. That's how the committees work. Davis started to speak and Safdie asked to wait after the election. Davis said he didn't want to wait until after the election is because they haven't followed policy to get to this point. They are putting the cart before the horse. He said policy 1.600 says "a proposed policy or policy change shall be submitted to the board as part of the agenda". Boston replied that is correct. Davis went on to quote, "Any interested party shall be given opportunity to be  heard on proposal. The board's approval of proposal or return for study or further revision shall constitute the first reading". Davis said the board has to approve those things prior to the committee meeting in order for the committee to actually assemble and determine what it is that is to be voted upon. Boston said that is incorrect, her perception is that is incorrect. When they voted int he policy committee by the majority of the board, they gave the policy committee a task. It is to review the policies recommended by TSBA or whomever. Davis asked whomever, does it say that? Boston said at that point they have been given a task and they have developed TSBA recommendations and Davis himself has recommended a couple of policies that he wanted on the agenda. Davis said to discuss and he said the majority of the policies not lettered in red are proposed by non TSBA members. Hamby said that Maddox had sent one in that does have changes as well as TSBA recommendations and she had a policy that she asked to be on the agenda. Davis said their policy maintenance says the "Director of Schools shall be responsible for drafting and coordinating policy proposals, maintaining the board's policy manual and serving as liaison between the board and TSBA". He said at no point in their maintenance process does it indicate they are to propose changes to policy. Stout said it's supposed to come from the Director or the board tasking the policy committee is how she read it. Davis said that is 100% what it says. Boston said then they needed to call TSBA and get a refund on all that money we've paid them for watching our policies. Safdie said he thinks that is the broadest possible statement in policy that allows for different types of interpretation. But he doesn't see how this meeting can proceed any further. He continued, saying, when Davis is looking at these policies, he's only making a recommendation to pass before the full board. And then the full board accepts or questions the changes that have been proposed. Davis said yes, but that is not what their current policy says they are supposed to do and how they are to operate. Davis said the proposal today takes back the ability of the Director to be the one responsible for policy maintenance. Safdie said at 16 years experience on the board, it has always been the board's prerogative to evaluate policy and to make recommendations either to the DOS or to the full board and even pursue discrepancies with TSBA. He said if they use past precedence as a guiding line then what should happen is a chairperson should be selected and policy reviewed and there was a recommendation for a chairperson. Boston said yes there is a motion on the floor. Davis said their policy committee structure does not ask us to do the things they are doing today. Boston told Hamby to call for question. Hamby called for question.  Davis began to say the question is and Hamby said no, that means they go on to the vote. She said there is a motion on the floor. Davis said he would move during that motion to adjourn until they could review their policy on how to develop policy until they determine if they need committees or chair people. Stull said doing that will put them in the exact same position they are in right now. Hamby said there are TSBA policies that need to be approved for changes and also she wanted to reiterate that she spoke with Stepp today and he did not indicate that he had a problem with them continuing on with the policy meeting. If he had a problem with that, he had every opportunity to tell her that and then they could have moved forward with making changes. Boston said it needs to be understood that Stepp works for the board, the board does not work for Stepp. Hamby said absolutely. Boston went on to say they voted to operate by a committee...Stout said she's hearing more of a concern that the policies on the agenda, where are they originating from. Boston said well, Davis asked for 2 of them on there. Hamby said no, actually Davis asked for 5 to be placed on the agenda for discussion. Boston said there is a call for question and Safdie said that has to be voted on. Hamby said there was a motion and a second on the floor to nominate and vote for a committee chairman. Davis said he moved to adjourn. Safdie told him there was a call for question and that takes precedence and has to be voted on. He said that is to stop discussion and continue on with the vote. Hamby tried to move on with the vote for chairman but Safdie reminded them again that there is a call for question and that is to end the discussion and move on with the motion on the floor. Hamby apologized and said she was confused by all that has transpired. She went on to clarify that they are in voting on the call for question. Which means a yes vote is to end the discussion and move on. A no vote is to keep going with the discussion. Nichols asked them to explain it one more time which Hamby did. At this point an audience member (Nancy Woodcock) asked if she could ask a question. Hamby permitted it and she stated was new to all board activities but to her it sounds like there is a subcommittee making decisions out of policy. Hamby then said they are not letting audience members have discussions about policy. Woodcock stated she just needed an explanation. Hamby told her she can speak with the board chairman after the meeting. Woodcock said ok, but it seems like it's big government taking positions on policy and she would like to understand. Hamby to a roll call vote on the call for question. Stull voted yes.  Nichols voted no. Davis voted no. Hamby voted yes. Hamby declared that they were at an impasse and since no committee chair was voted on, she said the meeting could not continue. Stout made a suggestion since they could not move forward could they put the TSBA recommended policies and 1.300 on the regular board meeting agenda so the board could have discussion and vote on what was needed. Hamby said they could not make a recommendation to take anything to the full board because they could not go any further without a committee chair. Davis said they could follow policy and have this conversation in a full board meeting and then take it to the committee. Stull said this takes away the whole objective of having a policy committee. She said she knew that several who wanted to work in work sessions versus committees but right now the board voted by majority to operate with committees. She said what is going on right now makes it impossible for them to operate like the majority of the board voted, by not moving forward and voting on a committee chair. She said every committee has a chairperson, an officer in that committee. There's not an officer in the committee if there's not a chairperson. Davis said and they have had ever how long that policy has been in effect to indicate everything she just said. Stull said it doesn't change the fact that they won't be able to do anything at the next policy meeting and the next one. Stout said it needs to be address, per policy, by the full board and then the committee needs to be tasked by the full board. Or change the policy, which is what Davis is saying. Stull said she's hoping this year does not turn in to this, that they are stopped from being able to work, as a board, together. Davis said this does put them back in front of the board together. Stull and Boston said no it doesn't. Stull said he's trying to go over what the majority of the board voted on, as working as committee. Davis said he's only operating as what it says they are doing. Stout said they need to follow the committee policy if they are going to have committees. Or change the committee policy first before they start handling things as a committee. Stull said right now the board being able to function and work is being impeded. They can't go ahead and work as a board together. Stout said they could very well address these things...Hamby made a motion to adjourn saying they would not be going any further with this today. She asked for a second. Stull gave the second with Davis opposing and Nichols having no vote. Hamby said she would contact TSBA and let them know what's going on. The meeting was adjourned at 4:24 pm.

Discussion:  The meeting was adjourned at approximately XX.